Judith Shapiro Interview
Sloate Media Studio, Barnard Library
June 22, 2015
Interview began at 3:30 PM
Biographical information
b. 1942, Jamaica, Queens
Mother a high school librarian
Father à handled books of a meat company mornings; track accountant afternoons
PS 26 – Stephen Jay Gould/Jonathan Cole (baseball player)
Not an African American family on the block – otherwise, an typical New York ethnic mix
My family belonged to a Reform temple – not particularly religious
“I do feel like a New York Jew” – as per Alfred Kazin
Jamaica High School – then a strong, privileged high school – Commercial track/General program (most of AAs)
Mother’s parent from Beylorussia à started in South Jamaica; maternal grandparents had a candy store; upward mobility in move to Jamaica Estates/North (still one rung below Jamaica Estates)
Younger sister to Clark University – then career army doctor
JS to Brandeis – a good theatre program — got into acting to deal with social awkwardness issues
“I wanted to be an actress.”
First thought was Carnegie-Tech – mother persuaded me of liberal arts college
Smith? – College tour à cottages enchanting; tour guide – pleated skirt, circle pin, sweater set….
JS – “Holy moly, get me out of here.”
Brandeis – Intellectually exciting – Theatre to History after Ist semester
Did some Mike Nichols/Elaine May imitations
Became a folk singer during summers à Cambridge/Provincetown
Junior Year under Sweet Briar’s auspices à France
Following graduation – accepted to Harvard/Berkeley in history
Brandeis’s two cultures: 1. Upward mobile Jewish kids;
2. Intellectuals/Bohemians – JS gang
little dating across these cultures
Fall ’63 – at Berkeley as history graduate student – French history/Carl Schorske — “Not right… spending my life in an archive….”
Back to NYC — interesting job
Up to then, no anthropology courses – friend got her in Claude Levi-Strauss, Triste Tropiques
JS: a life-long trajectory: More and more directed away from specialized study
Cultural anthropology at CU – entering fellowship à NIH fellowship ($2200 a year)
Field work
Field school à Nevada summer ‘65
After 2nd year as graduate student à Brazil as strength of Cu department [Charles Wagley] (taken with Portuguese/Bossa Nova)
Took to field work with the less isolated group — Tapire Pey??? ; knew every one’s name; welcomed as “Wagley’s niece”
Community of nuns – a post-PhD publication
Wanted a less exposed community to examine – rough experience; got me a thesis on gender differentiation [Tapire Pey] then the Yanonama
The Chicago stint
“Old boy network involved a girl”
Two job offers – Montreal and Smith
Then an offer from Chicago – snapped it up short of dissertation-submission
Fall 1970 – first appointee in UC anthropology department as a woman
Assigned office of Clifford Geertz à off to Princeton
Another junior appointee – whom I married ….still good friends
Not at all bitter about her Chicago years – department had a sense of humor
(Senior colleague: “The administration’s emasculating the department.”
JS: Affects some of us more than others….)
At Berkeley on post-doc in 74-75 – reappointed at UC to second term but took offer from Bryn Mawr
First, lived in Philadelphia; then faculty housing
Harris Wofford president in ’75; Pat McPherson Provost by another name; president in ‘78
Pat an “incarnational president.” Despite being a Smith graduate
Pat as head of “Bryn Mawr Mafia.” Job-placement juggernaut
Ego-strength with an absence of meanness – very caring of other people
Presidents pick up garbage on campus; provosts don’t
PMcP – personification of the “helium principle” of floating above controversies
A decade in department of 5 members (2 archeologists)
Mary Dunn’s departure for Smith presidency in 1985
JS proposed going with acting dean – Pat talked JS into taking the job
Accepted in keeping with inclination “to do something new.” Little risk as tenured….
BM administrative structure:
JS wanted to focus on academic stuff – not student business (Michelle Meyers hired for this)
Principal challenge: Get rid of most of the 20-odd graduate programs
Pat pulled it off; relied on the trust she had earned; sustained by faculty
closing graduate program in anthropology particularly painful – but necessary
Interest in Barnard job?
Earlier interest in cooperative arrangements with Haverford and Swarthmore – tri-college library automation system
Calls from Amherst about dean of faculty opening – Pat/Hannah not positive
Williams presidency?? Just not right…..
Call from Barnard – willing to put toe in water…. Knew BC from 7 Sisters conferences
Search committee meeting – HK/Pat Green/Anna Quindlen –
Came away with “I want this job, really wanted it.”
‘We had a good time interviewing each other.’
“I’m a New Yorker. Know Columbia. Experience with women’s colleges. Not a bad set of credentials
Detecting no board criteria based on prior president’s kitbag – faculty wanted an academic
[Not informed of Ad Hoc arrangements]
Pat’s initial reaction – did not want me to leave
Then, in JS’s corner as promoter
Accept job – Here in mid 1994
First real appointment à Elizabeth Boylan the following spring
MBc provided some Some numbers:
1. Admissions – from accept rates in 40s to high 20s
Uptick started up before JS arrival —
2. Endowment quadrupled by 2008 – 4%0 million to $200+
3. Capital Campaign – 2nd phase of EVF campaign à$65 million
Why a successful presidency (other than “just lucky”)?
1. JS and Columbia – Rupp’s initial take – BC should be folded into CU as per Radcliffe;
personally decent and constructive; and a listener; helped by Alan Stone’s support of BC
GR on Barnard/CU “Anomalous” an attack fish with a dorsal fin; Try “unique”
Rupp open to evidence: Barnard grades matched completely with Columbia, accept a tale on CC women (suggestive affirmative action by Hamilton Hall to keep men numbers up?)
More BC science majors than CC science majors —
Columbia relaxing in JS’s tenure:
BC students — still occasionally getting “dissed” by CC women;
JS advice: Not your problem; they’re problem. They have status anxiety
BC faculty – Some suffering from battered child syndrome; JS encouraged them to see themselves as Barnard faculty
JS and Jonathan Cole – shared values; his advice at start: “BC/CU relationship not than of Bryn Mawr and Haverford.”
JS: “ Oh, Jonathan, I knew that” — and then JS proceeded to act as if it were.
Didn’t do business with Austin Quigley: “I just liked him a lot.”
JS in trustee selection??
Involved in vetting – a happy relationship with her board
Dale Horowitz an important bridge to faculty à Faculty Finance Committee
Healthy faculty-board relations with no ex parte aspect to it.
‘Yours the most successful of the presidencies Barnard has experienced….”??
Difficult spots:
2. 1995 and 2110 union dealings – “My one, truly horrible experience at Barnard.’
Early on in presidency – In trouble until Bob Linn came on board
Some faculty responses unsettling — even about their own health care premiums??
2110 did not know how to stop once it had won….
“Strike was traumatic for me…. I became depressed by it….”
Taken bowling by Flora to relax.
Faculty did peel away from union camp
Strike painful but not really disruptive. Other BC unions didn’t make matters worse…
- 2001 Tenure case of Nadia Abu-Haj
Fortunately far along in presidency – “helium principle” nicely in play
JS had read book carefully/critically – Jonathan Cole advice on her reading – as opposed to her role as president in the process – guardian of the integrity of the process
Pained by Alan Segal’s going off the deep end and destroying relationships with colleagues
As for alums: Threatening to withhold funds from Barnard not the preferred way to open a discussion…
Not quite an instance of “Profiles in Courage” but appreciated by many outsiders
Theme for your presidency?
“I am a New Yorker.” Your presidency reasserts a level of connectedness of Barnard with the City’s immigrant experience.”
Variations of a theme: What kind of New York? EVF/JS/DS — “all variations of New Yorkiness”
MP/JAM not so
Virginia Gildersleeve – spent presidency playing NY down
JS – The first Jewish president of Barnard?? Many thought so….
Difference between German- Jews and the next wave
“I wouldn’t trade Barnard’s location for Wellesley’s endowment”
It’s a wrap!
Interview conclude at 5:10 PM
[email protected]
Rough draft sent to JS for corrections, edits… 6/26/2015