Ray Wu's Blog

Stoic belief and similarities with determinism: incompatible with the notions of moral responsibility

In connection with the modern belief that we are but a speck of dust in the universe.

Epictetus’s view differs slightly from the strict Stoic view of the ideal condition of a human being. He is more interested in explaining to people, not how they should understand an ideal condition, but how they can make their own condition somewhat better than it is.

He persuades them that they should set their sights lower, not expect to have certain desires satisfied, and live with the idea that such desires were not worth satisfying anyway. This sort of practical methodology might have stemmed from the fact that Epictetus was born into slavery.

“detach your aversion from everything not up to us”

A bit morbid in my opinion: “if you kiss your child or your wife, say that you are kissing a human being; for when it dies you will not be upset.”

“what upsets people is not things themselves but their judgments about the things.”

“Do not seek to have events happen as you want them to, but instead want them to happen as they do happen,and your life will go well.” not buying this one

crazy: “but if when things are set in front of you, you do not take them but despise them, then you will not only share a banquet with the gods but also be a ruler along with them.”

^I was in agreement with 15 until this was brought up. I do believe that you shouldn’t reach for things that have not yet arrived, nor hold on long after it has departed. But I certainly don’t agree with the idea that you should despise things offered to you.

18 brings up an interesting attitude towards bad omens that surely has to be controversial at the time.

25. “You were not invited to someone’s banquet? You did not give the host the price of the meal.”

29. “You must be one person, either good or bad.”

35. “When you do something that you determine is to be done, never try not to be seen doing it, even if most people are likely to think something bad about it. If you are not doing it rightly, avoid the act itself; if you are doing it rightly, why do you fear those who will criticize you wrongly?” <- very good advice, not confident in whether I can follow this fully.

37. “if you undertake some role beyond your capacity, you both disgrace yourself by taking it and also thereby neglect the role that you were unable to take.”

There is certainly some good advice here about how to process your emotions. Yet, there are tons of paragraphs that seem to emphasize the neglect or suppression of it. E.g. 50: “Abide by whatever task is set before you as if it were a law, and as if you would be committing sacrilege if you weren’t against it. But pay no attention to whatever anyone says about you, since that falls outside what is yours.

A good citizen follows the constitution; a good person has high moral value

citizens who are property owning (common definition of citizenship in the Western world) -> only people who have property can vote

Owning property becomes one of Aristotle’s conditions for participating in politics

Mentions and assesses hundreds of constitutions across the Greek world

Stability is the good that should shape the decisions of the sovereign.

System that he eventually builds relies on a few assumptions: you can participate in politics if your women and slaves can take care of the other things.

For Plato, education is important because it helps you reach the abstract form of good.
For Aristotle, education leads to excellence. Excellence gives you self-respect, and others respect the skills you bring to society. (similar to today’s idea of college)

Aristocratcs: the most virtuous people in society, moderation, courageous, wisdom to make good decisions

^Moderation: ensure that the stupid people of society don’t influence the politics

Property allows specific virtues to be recognized. A way to defend self-interest

Plato’s stance against excess, and belief in moderation as arete (virtue) is interesting.

Because in the class & virtue system of his Kallipolis

All the virtues of the other social classes aside from the producers point towards the end of the spectrum. Like the example given in class, the virtue of a car engine is to go fast, a seat is to carry, a chasis to bind. Yet, moderation is something that requires conscious thought. If the same logic carries, wouldn’t productivity or excess be more fitting? That’s more akin to how modern society think producers should do anyways. I don’t think any individuals would prefer to produce less when more is possible. Even if not for a capitalistic pursue of profit, there are always people who are in need of extra product.

But maybe Plato does have a point in that moderation alleviates the need for guardians to supervise the distribution of the resources.

Casual Sequence from Uzbekistan

If moral virtue is habituation, doesn’t that still mean it’s learned?

Aristotle sought to succeed Plato as the head of the Academy. Doesn’t get it. Travels to Asia Minor and becomes the tutor of Alexander (the Great).
Starts a rival school, Lyceum

Aristotle: The world around us can have things that are innately good (the innate good of a knife is cutting well)
Eudaimonia

Golden mean for everything around us? What if the world in itself is skewed? What if the people around one are skewed? Certainly not a universal approach to living a good life. Stemming from his own bubble of philosophers

Substitution of activity does not work for a good life. Actual action is needed. < pretty self explanatory

Self-deceptive activity & concept of multiple selves: choose one end, but actively betray that end at times; if you stick to a virtuous routine, but go on a bender every Friday, does that invalidate the virtue of routine?

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